There have been reports lately of people acquiring rare items from high profile, well-known collectors and getting cheated by having bought misrepresented rarities.

Having been through the exact same situation before, I can offer this advice:

1) Don't trust anyone. Look, we all have friends in this hobby but business is business. The seller may intentionally deceive you outright, or they may do it unintentionally after having unknowingly bought an illegitimate item themself. Either way, you'll be out some cash. So, don't just take anyone's word on an item and do your research on it before buying. Which leads to the next point....

2) Do your due diligence. Before buying an item, do your research first. Yes, it's difficult to not jump on a super rare item to eliminate the risk of losing it, but patience pays off. In an age where ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING can be replicated and anything can be customed and claimed to be the real deal, the likelihood of you getting ripped off is steadily increasing. Get your documentation. Get your "proof". Anything can be claimed to be a prototype or pre-released version, but without proper proof, it's basically just a 3D print, custom made or fake product.

3) It'll be easier to sell with proper provenance. The days of "I will never sell my collection" is out the window. I realize I have other interests as I grow older, and there may be a day where I need to move an entire collection to transition into another one. It'd become harder to move the rare, HQ-made items if you don't have the proper documentation and provenance. Personally, I take the "fake until proven real" to heart. It is my sincere recommendation that you do as well.

I suspect a lot of people will get ripped off by another high profile collector at one time or another if you buy a lot of stuff. Protect yourself and the hobby will continue to be fun for years to come.

Naturally, the list isn't exhaustive and there are always exceptions. By all means, please share your experiences and add in your advice.

I have/had three different prototypes and each fell into a different category.

1) My flying tiger Oil Rig. I received this at HQ by an employee during a sanctioned event. Later on I got them signed by the designer, and there's plenty of his prototype artwork around to back it up. Short of a Certificate, I feel this is the strongest case, plus the back story makes it a bit more interesting. I'm sure there's a ton of scrap pieces that designers tinker around with and probably toss a lot of the time.

2) My prototype Zero 0.2P. These were more athlete samples than internal prototypes, but there's no doubt to the fact that they weren't retail editions. The POINT 2 etching is replaced with PROTOTYPE and we've seen others. The fact that some Olympian wore them is lost at this point. The original Craigslist page in California mentioned it, but there's little way to prove it. I don't think it would add much.

3) My test run Flame Straight Jacket. I got these from an ex-employee. Supposedly 7 normal black SJ's were hand painted with flames and sold at Spectrum to see if they would be a hit before they bothered screen printing the rest. The pattern is definitely paint vs a screen print, but who knows if that story is true and how could it be proved. I ended up giving these away.

Sound advice, Oak. While this is certainly common knowledge for many collecting hobbies, I suspect these points can often be forgotten when faced with the possibility of owning something truly rare and special. It takes some discipline and experience to slow things down enough to see a sale like that for what it truly is. As I read this, I thought of a few people I knew who got burned buying fake baseball cards in the 1990s. Brought to you by people who ought to have known better, to be sure, but I guess the prospect of whatever they saw distracted them just enough to make a bad decision.

I remember the thread you started back in January regarding advice for the coming year. The recurring theme of the contributing comments to that thread was one of patience. I believe that whether you deal in diamonds or doughnuts, patience is ultimately paramount. I am sure that many of us here, at one time or another, had unknowingly purchased a Foakley. While it burns like a muthafugga, you learn from your mistakes. It is a shame that some people have to learn that lesson the hard, expensive way. One lesson I am sure none of us want to have to learn is to not trust people. But as you said business is business, for better or worse, and nothing seems to bring out the worst in people quite like the possibility of making a few extra bucks. So trust should lie not in people but your instincts and knowledge of your learned craft, your profession, or your hobby.

I hope that whatever or whomever brought about this thread gets resolved. If it or is a friend of yours, then I feel for them. If it's you personally who got burned, I say we all meet at your house with pitchforks and torches and go get the bahstarrrrrrd!!!

I like General Mattis' quote... "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet". That's gotta fit in here somewhere:)

While I have never really thought of myself as being in the market or a real player in the type of items that really fit the bill for this conversation, it is definitely interesting. Considering that many of these items generally fall under some sort of HQ one-off, prototype, or some other 'never made available' piece, I am specifically interested in what sorts of provenance is suitable for such cases? By the very nature, an item that likely wasn't ever intended to leave HQ or exchange hands, it seems to be an inherent issue to document validity to the story/item. However, this issue surely can't be isolate to Oakley, so what is a common or recommended practice across other hobbies?

Written confirmation by a well known employee from where you got the product is probably the most universally accepted level of definitive proof. It's surprisingly not all that hard to obtain. I've gone back and gotten written proof for most of my never-to-be-removed-from-HQ items, so it can be done. Whether you can share the proof in any sort of public manner before the employee leaves Oakley is another story altogether. Barring that, being presented a rarity by Oakley in front for 49 other collectors in an OFFICIAL event like Dann's FT Oil Rig is about as definite as it gets as well.

Now there are fake JJ signatures out there. What will these fakers come up with next?

I would like to express my opinion:

1- Search on the item with collectors in the oakley sites, forums, and see if I can find reports showing that the item was actually a prototype, or some very special item that was given in closed events for oakley.

2-Make sure the person who is selling has a certificate of origin, a document signing any official oakley, or any evidence of the event which took part and acquire the same.

3. If possible, purchase items of serious collectors, known, and not venture much in unknown ad sites because nowadays everything can be replicated in 3d

3- The most important thing is to stay calm and have patience, however rare and unique is that the item should be put right in front of emotion.

Search rather be patient, exchange information, and certainly will make a safe purchase, not regretted.

In more luck to all the acquisitions.

Great advice Oak, and all!

Good advice here.

Industrial copyright is a great myth.
As a buyer, I am incredulous at the sheer volume of bootleg product available, and the unwillingness of any form of authoritative response to stop it.
Sobering, when you consider that knowledgeable collectors are susceptible as well.

Fake serial number engravings. Even trying to emulate a mid run Ryan Arbabi serial, of which there was only #00101

Holy crap!

Wow. That looks too good...

where are these fakes coming from? I have never even seen fake xmetals that were not plastic.

Is the whole stem fabricated or are they real late-model stems with printed serials?

Real stems; fake serials (or at least one is fake, anyway). I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone figured out how to replicate it with some measure of quality. Next up: Box labels (though there have been reproductions with some quality in the past).

Is the whole stem fabricated or are they real late-model stems with printed serials? - skull.jacket

I imagine there's a ton of post 2004 X-Metal stems that are out there, so they put some mid-run serials on them to just give that extra bump in value without being extreme like serial #00001. The kicker was the RY serial which they pulled from our list here.

I was told the others are fake as well since they're from the same guy who's been doing this. Not something a hobbyist would achieve, but is you have access to some high end equipment at a job, then I suppose this wouldn't be too hard.

Nice job removing the original. Could have at least not done a 6 digit serial if they were trying to make it look low.

Not fake per se, but being peddled as a Jordan prototype vault.

Nice work, though...

There is a Jordan one with a red background and at least one other showcasing the serial number of a specific pair. Nice custom job but not Oakley's work. Buyer beware.

Just following up on my initial post since I found some pictures.

Many times we assume sellers with large collections that contain numerous rare items will only sell authentic items. Unfortunately that’s not always the case. Trophies, polished gold OTT, Andrew Petterson Frogskins and other assorted rare items have been faked by well-known collectors with large collections.

One example is AmermscleMustang from eBay (the seller now uses a different name and sells out of Florida). This seller had numerous rare items including one or two 18k TBs, numerous X-metals, Frogskins and Thumps. You would assume this person would sell only authentic items and would not misrepresent their items. Unfortunately, he/She (sometimes the account will have a female name attached to it) was caught doing some egregious things. I remember Josh calling this person out after he/she posted a Emerald Frogskin on eBay that claimed to come from HQ, but it ultimately turned out to be just a regular Frogskin with a custom lens Josh cut for him/her.

Another example was the infamous Copper Penny auction. Knowing that pairs with matching box/label will pull in more money, AmermscleMustang:
1. Created a fake label with different fonts and with parts numbers that don’t even match
2. Stuck the label onto any random box he/she could find, in this case it was a brown Square O box
3. Threw in a Square O microbag for good measure

Enjoy the comedy for yourselves:




As funny as the attempt may be, the lesson is still the same as above: Don’t trust anyone and protect yourself. Dealing with someone with a large, rare collection doesn’t mean you won’t be ripped off. Remember, these rare items aren’t faked by some random person; they are faked by those in the hobby itself and know the value of it. It is unfortunate the hobby has gotten to this, but that’s just the reality of it.

Hah, I love how the PC##### still made it onto the label.

Great Follow-up OAK!!

a picture is worth a 1000 words...

Ultimately, collectors will not only have to consider whether they are convinced the item is real, but they also have to consider if future buyers will be convinced as well with the level of proof offered. Most collectors still highly passionate about the brand won't think of selling. We've all been there, said the same thing. Life has a way of changing that stance. Whether it be because you need $ or because you found a new hobby that you want to transition to, most collectors won't be around forever and will need the ability to move their collection.

Oakley collecting is a very young hobby and ever-evolving. The collectors are evolving with it. They will be more knowledgeable, smarter and more discerning as years go buy. What will be convincing to collectors today will likely be laughable in 10 years. So, as always, keep this in mind when you buy non-documented items in the near future or otherwise you may take a loss on it when selling. Always try to get something in writing from a well-known Oakley employee or personality to provide you some insurance for the future. Good luck!