I always thought that having to remove published/older images was heavy handed and unfair. I can totally understand Oakley not wanting unreleased/brand new pics like Romeo II published, but 6 year old Eye Jackets? Who cares!?

It would be nice if they relent and let Dann republish the old pics in the database.

As regards to membership, I think the system is fine as it is. People like me who are still using dialup and don't frequent the net much would find it hard to get their membership status up there, even though I love Oakleys as much as the rest of you.

Andrew Ford (ford - 11/25/2004 11:05:34 AM)
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I think the 50 posts is bullshit...I mean I have been with this site since the beginning and have mad modest contribution conpared to others. I enjoy reading the posts and add to them when I can BUT the idea that I will now be restricted because I ned to maintain a certain post number... Why don't we grandfather everyone who is currently a memeber and apply the "new access" to newbies.

lo sepia (losepia - 11/25/2004 11:21:16 AM)
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I think the 50 posts is bullshit...I mean I have been with this site since the beginning and have made modest contributions compared to others. I enjoy reading the posts and add to them when I can BUT the idea that I will now be restricted because I need to maintain a certain post number... Why don't we grandfather everyone who is currently a memeber and apply the "new access" to newbies.

lo sepia (losepia - 11/25/2004 11:24:08 AM)
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Re: Old images
Anyone here done some research about the legalities of images and pictures off a site? How about using "mirrow images"? Does that count?

Re: New releases (Romeo II)
Okay, how about think file sharing like Napster/Kazaa...If this site will host the file and the members in it share the photos around blindly, meaning download it first and then discuss them in the forum. That way the photo is not openly published and yet they(the lawyer" won't know who had downloaded them?

Cal Fong (o-xide - 11/25/2004 8:33:20 AM)
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No offense to any newbies or weekend visitors but the idea of the restriction is not because you are not welcome, but instead it's for the lawyers who signs in and then have instant access to all areas just like an established members.

Yeah, restricting the site may sound bull**** but how else will we get to know you if don't post/review/ enough...to make sure you a true genuine fan with questions and comments... not a passer by-lawyer .

Cal Fong (o-xide - 11/25/2004 8:57:56 AM)
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I dunno, I think it might be a bit unfair for loyal followers who frequent the site, but either:

a) Don't have time to respond often enough

or b) Are non-english speaking

Yes I know we SHOULD do something so lawyers and such cant just wander in here anonymously, but I don't think there is really much of a viable solution :/

Leo Wong (DarkGrieverX - 11/25/2004 2:29:51 PM)
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Don't sweat it yet guys, but keep the ideas coming. They are very appreciated. I am sure the more voices we hear on this matter will greatly help decide how Dann sets it up. Everyone and every contribution here is welcome all the time.

Understand though that we do get members who sign up, make one or two posts and then disappear for a month or so. And the site is very dependent on reviews. That's what it is - The Oakley Review. Sadly I know it's nice to have images for those products when one reads the review and they should be available for all to see.

Hold tight and let's see where we get.

Phil Barket (kingphilbert - 11/25/2004 3:18:48 PM)
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Yeah it does worry me that there are soooo many members with like 3 visits and no posts and no collections etc, I mean they can be anyone. Since oakley flexed their muscles and got Dann to take the pics down im super paranoid about who exactly is spying on us, so I think it is essential that there be some kind of restricted access for certain parts of the site, cos sadly this all access website has suffered because the pics are too available.
So you see guys I know not everyone will like the restricted access but it is for the good of the site.
It will also incourage less active members to get their reveiws up and start posting more.

Alexis Watkins (LEX7 - 11/26/2004 1:30:39 AM)
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This whole series of events is seriously lame. I can't help but feel alienated from something I have a lot of enthusiasm for. But if people are indeed worried about who's watching the site, and who's the bad guy, the best thing to do is to not get on the wrong side of anyone either at the O, or working for them outside the company. If their site pictures are off limits, than they should be stricken.

BUT, the ebay idea, as well as somehow altering the images might be ok with Oakley. Maybe Dann can ask someone if the pictures could be added to the site with a watermark or something that identifies them as intellectual property of Oakley. Photoshopping the pics to include a transparent text wouldn't be hard.

ALSO, Dann has already disabled hotlinking pics from the site. However, anyone can still save any picture to their own HD to host and distribute. If Dann could prevent that, or (even better) restrict it to members (via a tiered system or not), perhaps the O would be more inclined to "loan" us their pictures.

Bottom line, the site needs to continue to feed the addiction. It'll be taken care of.

Brian Johnson (BrianJ1888 - 11/26/2004 12:38:11 AM)
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Okay a few things:

1) I'm not hanging the site up
2) I don't want to exclude newbies. If I did, I would have a long time ago.

The post count requirements took me all of 3 seconds to think of, and was just a suggestion off the top of my head. It was basically to open discussion and think of what would be fair, so instead of calling it bull, let me know what would be fair. We all have to work together on this. Based on the hoops I'm currently jumping through to get a function Paypal account, this is peanuts. So maybe something like 10 posts, I don't know. It gives you something to attain, and all you really gain would be access to DB pictures, all the while, the text portion being available anyway.

As a helpful side effect, I've disabled hotlinking, but people still try and make my server logs cluttered with image errors. Bit of a pain. Plus casual passers won't see anything to either try and hot link, or save locally. It would also save on bandwidth a bit.

As helpful as it would be, I know that anysite that required me to sign up, would immediately be a turn off. Unless of course I wanted to post on a forum, in which case, it's a neccessity.

I'm going to call that woman today and maybe the attorney and see what's up. Maybe I can talk some sense or something.

Dann Thombs (Dann - 11/26/2004 8:55:25 AM)
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With regards to contributions I know exactly what most of you are saying. I was guilty myself of just sitting on the sidelines letting everyone else do the work but am now fully signed up.

I am however a poor student with a meager collection and no picturing facilities and no clue as to how to use photo shop. This puts me at a bit of a disadvantage with some of the proposed solutions.

Even with a minimum post limit to gain access, whats to stop a lawyer having his flunkies log on and post for him until he can see any stuff which is dubious.

Regarding Oakley's reaction it seems from the last few posts that there may be some come and go after all (or am I just making things up?)



william brown (O.T.T. - 11/26/2004 2:10:29 PM)
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Well I was thinking of only two collections items as a minimum; put your pair of glasses and the microbag. The review count may be too stiff, so that should probably come down. Login's aren't hard, just hang around for a while, and it'll happen. As for post count, that can come down too. I know if the forum is busy, it may be awkward for a newcomer to jump into the ring and participate in conversations that are months old. So let me know what you think. We've heard from the veterans, so I want to hear from those of you who have just signed up.

Why did you join.
Did you see the db first and then decide.
Would you have been turned off had something not been there.
What requirements do you think should be in place.



Dann Thombs (Dann - 11/26/2004 9:42:26 AM)
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Shh, don't tell anyone, the pics are back online. You have to be logged in and have more than 5 reviews though.

I can't get ahold of that woman, but she kinds left a message saying Oakley wasn't as concerned over the existing stuff as with not-yet-released pictures. So enjoy the functional site again.

Dann Thombs (Dann - 12/20/2004 10:39:34 AM)
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Cool. I really don't think O will have a problem with it as long as we don't attract attention to ourselves (i.e. no pictures of new stuff before some other public site puts it up).

Ed Chiu (eddyc - 12/20/2004 10:49:06 AM)
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Great - everythings getting back to normal.
Maybe next time we get some early release images we can just e-mail them to each other on request.
Or even Dann you might be able to do a bulk e-mail to every body, then we can still see it and talk about it without posting the image. Just a thought.

Mike Bahr (warwagon - 12/21/2004 12:03:26 AM)
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Still pondering that VIP idea, but I know I'll get flack about excluding people and becoming elitist. Thought about maybe opening it to those who supported the site via donation should we go that way, but that seemed almost like I was selling the exclusive info, and that didn't seem right. Plus not everyone has paypal etc...

Dann Thombs (Dann - 12/20/2004 11:07:08 AM)
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I think we should just keep things as is for now and just be careful about what we post. Simple is better, right?

Ed Chiu (eddyc - 12/20/2004 11:15:05 AM)
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Excellent. I am glad they're back. Yeah, let's just be careful and the 5 reviews requirement is cool. It's still a shame that the newcomer who only wants to read a review can't read the review and see the image too.

Phil Barket (kingphilbert - 12/20/2004 11:19:12 AM)
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Yeah, We should keep it the way it is right now...we have several new comers and we want them to keep coming back or newer ones to join in. I am glad to see that a couple of our new comers are participating in a way... whether via pictures or by post.
As for the new releases, We can email it to each other or Photoshop it.

Cal Fong (o-xide - 12/20/2004 8:24:26 AM)
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The main reason I joined was to see if anybody collected any of the old stuff....although I still like a lot of the newer designs.
If there was some kind of charge for joining then I would still have joined....but all this about a tiered system is a little off putting to the newbie I believe.
Oakley is an elite product,so to collect Oakleys will always be a competition with the hardcore I think.
Either add a small charge,or just leave it the way it is, otherwise you will end up turning people away,and the site will never end up with anymore than just a couple of hundred members.



Lee Silver (banarno - 12/20/2004 4:25:09 PM)
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Bottom line, I wouldn't make anyone jump through hoops to get what you get now. The forum is open to everyone and I want to keep it that way without crippling it to the point of being functionless. It's unfortunate that new or passing by users can't see the images, but this is really the best I can do.

Dann Thombs (Dann - 12/20/2004 11:50:21 AM)
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Nice one Dann, it's good to see that everything is pretty much back to normal!

adam moore (adamjmoore - 12/20/2004 5:25:32 PM)
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Whoops, forgot to add the 5 review logic into the rest of the site. Also re-activated the artwork and download section.

Dann Thombs (Dann - 12/20/2004 12:33:25 PM)
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Cool, good news! Now we gotta work on a mega tower each....

Darren Taylor (rolyatnerrad - 12/20/2004 1:01:48 PM)
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awesome... thanks dann!

W.B. Ng (bong - 12/20/2004 10:12:38 PM)
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